I’ve been thinking about conspiracy theories lately, particularly since I watched a documentary about 9/11. It seems unless we hear an honest confession from the perpetrator, there is an impartial investigation into such matters or time travel becomes a reality, we are never going to know what actually happened. I’m talking generally about any historical events under suspicion, where the evidence is lacking or conflicting:- the moon landing; the assassination of Kennedy; Roswell etc. It seems there are always underlying agendas, information that the general public will never be privy to. You can’t trust anybody in this world as long as greed and corruption exists. So when we will find out the truth? Never?
Last night, I watched ‘The Puppet Masters’ with Donald Sutherland, in which alien parasites attached themselves to the backs of human beings and penetrated their brains to absorb information about the species:- their thoughts; their experiences; their memories. Likewise, from the attachment, the hosts learnt the intentions of their alien invaders but were paralysed to act unless released by the parasite. Any knowledge learnt by the individual was relayed to the entire alien species in some kind of hub or meeting place. It was as if there was one giant brain, a mass consciousness where everything was known.
Am proposing this is what happens after you die. You will be hard-wired into God or source, heaven, the cosmos and will immediately know and understand everything about life and death, human beings, the world and beyond. Basically everything you ever wanted to know will suddenly become apparent. So you will have to wait til after you die to discover the ultimate truth (including who killed President Kennedy).
And then, your memory will be erased, you will be reincarnated into a new life and will be left to ponder the infinite questions of the universe all over again. Annoying, huh?
“Its a nice dream but I sincerely doubt the possibility. Okay I am an Darwinian Atheist so dont buy any of the god realted stuff but I also appreciate Zen, which encourages an acceptence to the way things are, not how we would like them to be. From that I find that not knowing and admitting that you dont know (or indeed may ever know) is a much bolder thing to do than half heartly saying ” i suppose so” to sketchy implausable theories. We might find out how things have gone with secret files, and freedom of information requests later, or by investigation and cross referencing of the evidence, but all we will ever be able to do is build a sketch of the most likely turn of events.
Take 9/11, put simply, there are two possiblities, either it was all planned in a big massive conspiracy or it just happened and a great tragedy was turned to political advantage, either way the outcome is the same, Afghanistan, Iraq and soon Iran by the looks of things. Some people think Lizards are invovled, this to me is laughable. As a Humanist and scientifically minded person, i like to look for the economy of explaination. Broadly put, science is the process of looking for the most economical answer to a problem, whilst simultaniously trying to eliminate personal opinion and presumption from the mix as these are unreliable varibles. (but so precious in other ways! Just not useful for a concise answer.)
While i sit here wondering at my own existence, (which I do ALL the time) I find that only the most well argued and tightly thought out theories will do, thats Science, Darwinism and reason in general for me. What is also great is that if some one provides convincing enough evidence for something counter-intuitive, or disproves something i assumed i will consider and accept that too.
Life is one Big ? but while i’m here i’ll try and use what methods are avaliable to try and understand it all. I’d rather do that in case there is no afterlife and it doesn’t all come together, which is something i’m convinced is so. Were all just here because we are I think, and the desire for order truth and meaning is the result of an organised mind projecting its ways of working on a chaotic but not disordered universe. Infact something meditation does is brings your attention to just how disordered our minds really are!”
Martin Coote
http://darwindocu.deviantart.com/
Well, if we meet in the afterlife, and I was right, you owe me a drink or vice versa. Hang on, we will no longer need such earthly pleasures, we’ll be dead….I can’t resign myself to accept just what has been proven unfortunately. As you mentioned science is altered and re-evaluated by mankind constantly and there are loads of holes in the knowledge base so this is not gospel truth either. I relish imagining all the possibilities. Isn’t this how science evolves in the first place? An individual comes up with a hypothesis or theory, then works to either prove or disprove it. So the dreamers eventually effect how we perceive reality and aid human evolution. It’s difficult to prove what happens in the afterlife as you can’t easily return once you are dead. Well, maybe you could as a ghost but again they haven’t been confirmed as existing either so nobody would believe you….Blah, blah, blah, I’m waffling. Life is one big question mark? Agreed.
“No science is not Gospel truth, instead it accepts the possibility that there is no gospel truth. This is a hard thing to come to terms with but i think it is essential if we are to have a mature understanding of existence. Holes exist but we hoist our perforated sail as it at least has some substance to catch the wind, as opposed to many who swear blind thier sail is there and billowing but it is clear that their mast stands empty. Dreamers drive science, but the car was built by engineers who understand the rules of how the vehicle works The Driver could be an engineer but it could also be someone well removed from the project who can say “guys the wheels are on backwards!”
I dont think their is an afterlife, because it has been shown things that affect the brain like drugs and alcohol, affect the precious selfhood that is consciousness, and meditation reveals a deeper discordance to the supposed narrative that is our lives.From moment to moment awareness is a jumble of different perceptions and thoughts that dont have a continuity until they are put into one by the process of asking “what just happened?” when asked to explain ourselves we edit the perceptions into a story which has a narrative weight and thus think that it must’ve been that way all along.
People have honestly attempted to prove paranormal phenomena. Here is the account of one, who i greatly respect for her work after she came out as a materialist! Sue Blackmore was a para psychologist for thirty years before giving it up. I think its fair to say she gave it her best shot but came up short. Its and interesting read.
? is life. Its a disembodied question mark but we are building up a grammar with which we can ask the question. and already were seeing hints of the answer, or maybe the answer is the question. That is what i enjoy anyway, the asking!”
Martin Coote
http://darwindocu.deviantart.com/
I can’t logically conceive of there being no afterlife. What is it they say? Energy doesn’t disappear, just changes from one form to another. I can’t imagine not existing at all….naturally. And how could you possibly learn everything you know in just one lifetime? I tend to trust my instincts. I think we’ve possibly each had 100s of lifetimes, in which we can explore every possible situation / perspective to learn and experience ourselves as ‘whatever.’ Maybe in a former lifetime, I was a level-headed, deeply cynical sceptic, provoking new agers such as yourself to defend their beliefs? 😉
Not sure whether I believe in a God or not, I’d regard myself as agnostic but am open-minded to us all being interconnected by metaphysical energy and regard humans as spiritual beings. I guess I’m the sort of person who’d agree with the theory of evolution etc but suggest that it was perhaps generated by God or that there is something operating behind the scenes beyond the scientic reason. I think reality exists somewhere between spirituality and science, but it requires a looser way of thinking (so agree with you to an extent) that there is no gospel truth or definite conclusion. I just wonder whether after you die, your chaotic mind will be silenced and everything will just make sense. Maybe this is what meditation does, everything becomes a void of nothingness, unimportant so there are no conflicting thoughts anymore. No doubt, I’ll keep reading and revising my belief system throughout this lifetime and the next. 😉 Thanks for the discussion and I enjoy asking the questions too.
“Energy is a mesurable, transferable thing which passes from system to system. “energy” is also an almost meaningless word which revels in its own mysticism and is the stock in trade of many fraudulent alternative therapists.
Energy is not something outside of Nature but the currency of the natural world, the ultimate motivation for all mechanical function. So the energy within us will pass on into other systems, this does not mean we will be conscious of this because our consciousness requires an complicated and highly intricate matrix of neurons firing to sustain itself. George Monbiot has a wonderful editorial piece in which he describes this form of literal reincarnation.
“Darwinian evolution tells us that we are incipient compost: assemblages of complex molecules that – for no greater purpose than to secure sources of energy against competing claims – have developed the ability to speculate. After a few score years, the molecules disaggregate and return whence they came. Period.
As a gardener and ecologist, I find this oddly comforting. I like the idea of literal reincarnation: that the molecules of which I am composed will, once I have rotted, be incorporated into other organisms. Bits of me will be pushing through the growing tips of trees, will creep over them as caterpillars, will hunt those caterpillars as birds. When I die, I’d like to be buried in a fashion which ensures that no part of me is wasted. Then I can claim to have been of some use after all.”
I’m going to be quite inflammitory now but please do not take it personally, it is merely for the benefit of the debate. If you can say that you would agree with the theory of Evolution but think it was generated by God, then in no uncertain terms, you have not understood Evolution or its simple explanitory power in the slightest. It removes the need for God from the process and indeed makes the idea of God seem ridiculous and outdated. Infact i’d say your in the dangerous realm of trying to mix contradictory arguements into one perspective, and as a result end up disrespecting the core tenets of both sides. Vinegar and Bicarbonate of Soda will never make a stable solution.
You say life requires a looser way of thinking, however this is insulting to the rigourous thought process that has built the world around us, for good or ill. Science itself is deviod of ethical judgement, it is neither good or bad, it is a way to find raw knowledge, and knowledge is power, people have used that power shortsightedly and for their own benefit and now we have melting ice caps and man made climate change. But the only way we are going to solve these problems is by using the same powerful knowledge seeking process to guide us out of the corner we have got ourselves in to. I’d rather scientists guide us out than religious or political leaders.
Right ranty bit over,
In a way we have had 1000s upon 1000’s of lifetimes before our own but via our genes. The genes which make up you have all, without failure, been successful at surviving in the harsh competition of life for millions of years. From this experience we have built in evolved abilities of judgement that come to us a second nature, that are instinctual. If someone throws a ball at us we can sit down with a calculator and measure its tradjectory, velocity, factors like wind speed, and workout where it will be when it comes close enough to catch, two weeks later when we stick our hand out to catch it the moment will be long gone, or we can just catch the damn thing, trusting our innate sense of physics.
In trusting your instincts, please bear in mind the way in which they have come to be! As a by-product of evolved survival mechanisms!”
Martin Coote
http://darwindocu.deviantart.com/
You sound like you want to throttle me, I’m not sure I have explained myself very well….When I mentioned religion, I meant spirituality. I don’t agree with organised religion, I believe individuals should question things for themselves and reach their own conclusions. So I have much respect for you, that you don’t let religious or political leaders dictate how you should live (they are often corrupt for power) you just follow your own logic, albeit scientific logic. (I have more in common with aetheists than religious fundamentalists.) But I am interested in a combination of science and spirituality, this is what resonates as true in my mind, heart, soul.
As you mentioned, I don’t assume that I am 100% right, “I don’t know” but I am open-minded to infinite possibilites. These are just suggestions, theories, my chaotic mind exploring various thought processes. I may be fooling myself but it’s what makes me feel more content about life, that there is a deeper meaning, something spiritual operating beneath the scenes. I don’t know whether that something is God / Buddha or an energy source or highly evolved beings living on a different plane of consciousness but I believe there is “something”. Maybe that something is just science but evolution, the human body etc are still miraculous in their creation, are they not?
When I said a looser a way of thinking, I meant there is no definite yes or no answer, everything is and it isn’t. For example, we are connected, yet seperate, together and individuals. Contradictions exist everywhere, life is a contradiction. I’m not following a definite structure and would never take anything as literal ie: the bible. My thoughts today will probably differ to my thoughts tomorrow but that is fine because I am learning and evolving as a human being. Oh I don’t know…I shall probably read more about darwinism in future and add aspects of that to my knowledge and understanding.
“believe me i mean you no harm or insult!
I think well probably keep argueing across each other so i think we’ve probably said all we can at this point. But if you want to read on further about evolution, may i reccomend an excellent book to do so with is the Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins, it perfectly summarises the astonishing simplicity, that gives rise to all the complexity and makes the lack of mystery surrounding our existence all the more astounding for the clarity of his description. There is something truely incredible about being that sense of wonder only heightens as you appreciate what we already can explain!
I bid you fond fairwell and thanks for the debate! And hope you enjoy the read should you choose too!
Martin”
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